119 BONUS Ken Webster: the circular ECONOMY! Part 2

This is the 2^nd part of Catherine’s conversation with Ken Webster, one of the foremost thinkers in the circular economy field, where we explore concepts for a critical aspect that’s being ignored – the economy itself!

In this episode, we go deeper into the possibilities offered by a universal basic dividend, especially as we move to a world where artificial intelligence might completely change the nature of work.

Ken mentions his work with Earth4all, supporting the discourse and new thinking marking the 50^th anniversary of the Club of Rome’s ground-breaking Limits to Growth report.

We move on to Ken’s mission to make these concepts easier to grasp and to help people get excited, plus the importance of getting really clear on the core idea, before trying to make this work in practical terms.

Ken explains the overlaps between the thinking around circular economy and complex, adaptive systems and highlights some of the glaring faultlines in mainstream economic thinking.

That leads us back to the Commons and regenerative and open systems, together with the key questions that should be at the heart of designing circular products, components and materials,

And we finish by hearing a bit more about Ken’s most recent books, including ABC&D: Creating a Regenerative Circular Economy for All – co-written with Craig Johnson, and his latest book, The Wonderful Circles of Oz: A Circular Economy Story, written with Alex Duff.

If you haven’t already, please do listen to the previous episode to hear Ken talk about the Universal Basic Dividend (not Universal Basic Income), and the importance of reviving the concepts of commoning, and the Commons.

International speaker, author and strategic advisor, Catherine Weetman helps people discover why circular, regenerative and fair solutions are better for people, planet – and prosperity.

Catherine’s award-winning book: A Circular Economy Handbook: How to Build a More Resilient, Competitive and Sustainable Business includes lots of practical examples and tips on getting started.

Stay in touch for free insights and updates…

Read on for more on our guest and links to the people, organisations and other resources we mention.

Don’t forget, you can subscribe to the podcast series on iTunes, Google Podcasts, PlayerFM, Spotify, TuneIn, or search for “circular economy” in your favourite podcast app. Stay in touch to get free insights and updates, direct to your inbox…

You can also use our interactive, searchable podcast index to find episodes by sector, by region or by circular strategy. Plus, there is now a regular Circular Economy Podcast newsletter, so you get the latest episode show notes and links delivered to your inbox on Sunday morning, each fortnight. The newsletter includes a link to the episode page on our website, with an audio player. You can subscribe by clicking this link to update your preferences.

Links we mention in the episode:

Circular Economy Podcast on LinkedIn: linkedin.com/showcase/circular-economy-podcast/
Circular Economy Podcast website: circulareconomypodcast.com
Catherine Weetman on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/catherine-weetman-9419107/
A Circular Economy Handbook: How to Build a More Resilient, Competitive and Sustainable Business – buy from any good bookseller, or direct from the publisher Kogan Page, which ships worldwide (free shipping to UK and US) https://www.koganpage.com/CircEcon2
Interactive podcast index https://www.rethinkglobal.info/circular-economy-podcast-index/
Rethink Global www.rethinkglobal.info
Sign up to get the podcast player and shownotes for each new episode emailed to your inbox

Links for our guest:

LinkedIn linkedin.com/in/ken-webster-28825110
Email: ken@circulareconomy.co.uk

Books, people and organisations we mentioned

The Wonderful Circles of Oz: A Circular Economy Story, by Ken Webster and Alex Duff – a new and compelling narrative about the future direction of our economy, calling for macro-economic system design. https://www.routledge.com/The-Wonderful-Circles-of-Oz-A-Circular-Economy-Story/Webster-Duff/p/book/9781032109107 and https://bookshop.org/p/books/the-wonderful-circles-of-oz-a-circular-economy-story-ken-webster/18110152?ean=9781032109107
The Circular Economy: A Wealth of Flows by Ken Webster (2^nd edition) https://bookshop.org/p/books/the-circular-economy-a-wealth-of-flows-2nd-edition-revised-preface-and-conclusion-plus-additional-chapter-ken-webster/6577289?ean=9780992778460
ABC&D by Craig Johnson and Ken Webster https://bookshop.org/p/books/abc-d-creating-a-regenerative-circular-economy-for-all-craig-johnson/17863262
Sense and Sustainability https://bookshop.org/p/books/sense-and-sustainability-ken-webster/12266285?ean=9780955983108 https://bookshop.org/p/books/sense-and-sustainability-ken-webster/12266285?ean=9780955983108
Michel Bauwens and the Peer to Peer Foundation – http://p2pfoundation.net
David Bollier – news and perspectives on the commons – https://www.bollier.org/
Christian Felber’s book Change Everything: Creating an Economy for the Common Good https://christian-felber.at/en/books/
Guy Standing – https://www.guystanding.com/ and a short YouTube video on rentier capitalism – The Wealth Paradox https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dJ5gAiY5-ZY
Massimo de Angelis, author of The Beginning of History: Value Struggles and Global Capital, and editor of The Commoner web journal, at http://commoner.org.uk.
Elinor Ostrom – awarded the Nobel Memorial Prize in Economic Sciences in 2009 for her “analysis of economic governance, especially the commons”, which she shared with Oliver E. Williamson. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elinor_Ostrom
Earth4all – a vibrant collective of leading economic thinkers, scientists, and advocates, convened by The Club of Rome, the BI Norwegian Business School, the Potsdam Institute for Climate Impact Research and the Stockholm Resilience Centre. Building on the legacies of The Limits to Growth and the Planetary Boundaries frameworks, science is at the heart of our work. Leading scientists have developed state of the art systems dynamic models and run different scenarios for possible plausible futures. https://earth4all.life/
Club of Rome – Limits to Growth +50 – a range of resources published to mark the 50^th anniversary of the Limits to Growth report in 1972 https://www.clubofrome.org/ltg50/
Tipping Point – the true story of the Limits to Growth. “50 years ago, they told us what was coming. Why were they ignored? A 3-part podcast about the true-crime story of “The Limits to Growth”: The study, the backlash – and its legacy” https://tippingpoint-podcast.com/
Materiom – “the next generation of materials is waste-free and regenerative by design.” https://materiom.org/

Guest bio

Ken Webster is a Visiting Professor at Cranfield University and a Fellow of CISL (Cambridge University Institute for Sustainability Leadership). From 2010 – end 2018 he was Head of Innovation for the Ellen MacArthur Foundation, a circular economy pioneer organization, where he helped shape current notions of a ‘circular economy’. More recently he has worked at Univ of Exeter Business School (2019-2021). Ken was awarded a DSc from Univ. of Brighton in 2023.

His book The Circular Economy: A Wealth of Flows (2^nd Edition 2017) relates the connections between systems thinking, economic and business opportunity and the transition to a circular economy. He makes regular contributions to conferences and seminars around the world. His current interests include; open vs closed circular economy approaches, construction and the built environment, extended producer ownership and materials data management. Ken is on the supervisory board of the Madaster Foundation in Amsterdam – a materials passport organisation.

He contributed to the new Handbook of the Circular Economy (Eds. Alexander, Pascucci and Charnley (2023) and was a contributor and editor on Earth for All from the Club of Rome. He is a lead author on circular economy for UNEP’s GEO-7 report (in development).

A recent book with an emphasis on exploring different scales, especially in food and agriculture is ABC&D Creating a Regenerative Circular Economy for All (with Craig Johnson), published in 2022.

Playlist: getting started with the circular economy…

Want to know more about the what the circular economy really is, and how it can help your business? Here’s a playlist to help you get to grips with the concept, how it creates value, and the common myths (spoiler alert – it’s much more than recycling!)

#1 What is the circular economy: A quick intro to explain what the circular economy is and why it’s important. We explore how it helps create better products and services, and at the same time helps to make a better world. I break it down into my 5 circular economy components, helping you think about each part of your business.
#2 The linear economy and your risk checklist: We dig a bit deeper into the way we do business now, the linear economy, and why that’s creating problems for business, society and our living planet. Also, we’ll look at the risks that emerge from those big-picture issues, and how they might affect your organisation.
#90 Does circular mean it’s sustainable? Does circular mean it’s sustainable? Catherine Weetman is worried that companies are using circular economy solutions to grow their business (and their footprints).
#101 Circular is better for people, planet and profit! How three simple strategies can help you get started with circular and regenerative solutions that are better for people, planet and profit

And here’s Catherine’s guide: What is the circular economy?

Want to dig deeper?

Why not buy Catherine’s award-winning book, A Circular Economy Handbook: How to Build a More Resilient, Competitive and Sustainable Business. This comprehensive guide uses a bottom-up, practical approach, and includes hundreds of real examples from around the world, to help you really ‘get’ the circular economy. Even better, you’ll be inspired with ideas to make your own business more competitive, resilient and sustainable.

Please let us know what you think of the podcast – and we’d love it if you could leave us a review on iTunes, or wherever you find your podcasts. Or send us an email…

Podcast music

Thanks to Belinda O’Hooley and Heidi Tidow, otherwise known as the brilliant, inventive and generous folk duo, O’Hooley & Tidow for allowing me to use the instrumentals from the live version of Summat’s Brewin’ as music for the podcast. You can find the whole track (inspired by the Copper Family song “Oh Good Ale”) on their album, also called Summat’s Brewin’. Or, follow them on Twitter.

Previous episodes....

Ep27 Chris Hellawell Edinburgh Tool Library

Episode 27 Chris Hellawell – Edinburgh Tool Library

10th May 2020 Circular economy recovery recycling repair sharing social value sustainability

Chris Hellawell is founder and director of Edinburgh Tool Library, which works like a lending library, sharing tools rather than books. Chris is passionate about the concept of sharing as a way to tackle the climate crisis, and also as a way to save money, and to build social connections in communities. By sharing, everyone is richer. The Edinburgh Tool…

Episode 26 – Katie Briggs of the Textile Review

26th April 2020 Circular economy fashion & textiles recovery reuse sustainability transparency

Katie Briggs set up The Textile Review, to close the loop on fabric from the events sector. She has found customers who value that pre-used fabric, and she helps both buyers and sellers reduce their costs and impact.

Episode 25 Geoff van Sonsbeeck – Baukjen

12th April 2020 business models Circular economy design fashion & textiles materials recovery rental social enterprise social value sustainability

Geoff van Sonsbeeck is the Co-Founder and CEO behind the direct to consumer womenswear brands BAUKJEN and ISABELLA OLIVER, and has been at the forefront of the slow, sustainable fashion movement for over 15 years. We talk about how the two brands are building on their durable and timeless design ethos and evolving a range of circular practices. These include…

Ep 24 Steve Haskew of Circular Computing

Episode 24 – Steve Haskew of Circular Computing

29th March 2020 Circular economy linear economy low carbon remanufacturing sustainability technology

Remanufacturing is one of the circular economy strategies that helps us keep products, components and materials ‘in the system. It means we can have high-quality, reliable products and equipment with pretty much the same performance as a new version – and costing significantly less – for the customer, society and our environment. In today’s episode, I’m talking to Steve Haskew…

Episode 23 Andy Bownds – Eco Brixs

15th March 2020 Circular economy construction inclusive plastics recovery recycling social value sustainability

EcoBrixs Mission is "To create green, environmentally friendly, sustainable solutions to lift people out of abject poverty in Uganda”, and it does that by giving trash – waste plastic – a value. That means anyone in the community can recycle. Eco Brixs started out in 2017. Frustrated with the lack of waste management systems in Masaka, Andy Bownds and his…