106 Yael Shemer – transcript

Interview Transcript

Provided by AI – add 2:50 mins for the finished episode

Yael Shemer  00:35

I think that the best way to capture what Tulu does is, we’re tapping into one of the most fundamental shifts in consumption paradigms, which is moving from the equation of I want something therefore I buy it into I need something therefore I use it. We install modular units in residential buildings, student housing, offices, and soon shopping malls. And we allow people to get access to household appliances, Micromobility, printers, different solutions for them to use on the go, rather than to have to own them. And we are doing it where people live their lives, so in their buildings, and we are currently operating in 22 cities worldwide. We have about 50,000 users and we are partnering with landlords,

Catherine Weetman  01:30

amazing 22 cities already. And you know, how did you come up with the idea? How did you land on this as a way to do something really interesting.

Yael Shemer  01:43

I’ve always been kind of an an organism geek, I would say I’ve been really interested in optimising resources. I was doing my master’s degree in environmental science, and already thinking about leveraging rooftops. And that interests alongside my personal adoption of minimalism, led me led me to go to an accelerator called Design X and MIT in Boston, which is part of a greater accelerator called our generation speaks, which encourages young entrepreneurs to come and spend a summer in Boston and really think about the world’s problem and what we can do to solve them. And that’s where I met my co founder, Yishai Lehavi, who’s an architect with an extensive technological background from his army service, we spent an entire summer together, starting actually with the built environment and thinking about buildings and what innovation can be done to already built buildings rather than you upcoming developments. And his interest in the built environment and my interest in alternative consumption. minimalism and environmental practices blended into what ended up becoming Tulu today.

Catherine Weetman  03:00

And that’s interesting that you bring the minimalism aspect into it, I was reading something from I can’t remember if it was Mintel or Euromonitor a while ago about future trends for you know, their their definition of consumers. But they looked right ahead to 2030. And we’re looking at some of the big trends shaping our behaviour. And rather than it being a desire for minimalism, they were talking about the affordability of living space. And the fact that people are having to share space with others people are having to rent, you know, tiny little flats and bed sets and so on. So they didn’t have the room to store all this stuff. So it was kind of you know, it fed into the minimalism desire, but from the point of view of I haven’t got the space. So how do I still have access to the things that make life you know, interesting, more enjoyable or useful from time to time? So how did you come up with, you know, the, the concept of too low and how to decide what to offer people.

Yael Shemer  04:06

So if I take a step back, I wanted to make a comment about our cities and how they’re gonna play a role in climate mitigation and innovation. And it really comes down to space and it really comes down to us having to face population growth and having to face people living in cities in city centres, and then asking, Okay, what solutions are we going to create that will a make people live a good life, but be will be considerate of the restrictions? And that’s where I think circularity comes to mind and solutions like Tulu are crucial. Maybe they don’t feel crucial today, but they will be extremely crucial. And even the name Tulu, which mean, it means an earthly building. It’s from China from the 15th century, where people would live in those huge circular building

Yael Shemer  05:00

To the outer ring would be only for beds. So really small rooms for the individual. And the inner ring would be for the theatre, the laundry, the kitchen, where individual will share the resources. And I think that’s how we’re thinking about what we’re offering. The way to became what it is today was we started a proof of concept in Tel Aviv. We said, you know, we started actually, with a fairly small building, we said, what are the common products people are going to want to use, that they can share. And the obvious products we chose were laundry machine and a dryer scooters. printer in a vacuum. And that was our pilots. Little did we know this is an entire world. And what kind of kept to mind was, this has to be really elegant, this has to be simple, and did happen. And it has to make a good enough alternative for the other alternative, which is the buying economy, which you know, I go on Amazon, I go on whatever website, I want it, I can get whatever I need. Within two days, maybe even half a day, we kind of grew this concept really fast. And we said okay, if these are the first five products, what could be the next 10 products and started thinking about the jobs to get done.

Yael Shemer  06:26

So if Catherine lives in a city, and she wants to cook, and host and clean, and DIY and do all those things, what are products that she’s gonna need in her daily lives. So we tapped into every major category, and thought about the first two or three products people would need in that category and started offering them. And alongside this, which was a lot of testing and experimenting, we would also ask people in surveys, we would send surveys to our friends and to our potential clients and said, you know, if you could rent items in your buildings, what would you rent, and we started getting this really interesting, wide range of people saying, Oh, I would rent a bread maker, I would rent a pasta maker, I would rent a sewing machine. So we would include these items as well. But just like in life, you know, declared preferences versus revealed preferences, ends up being people don’t actually make pasta, homemade pasta every day. And that all happened during COVID. So people really did want to do it. But eventually, we started seeing that the main categories people were actually using was primarily the cleaning category. novelty items like VR headset, PlayStation five, gaming products, and then micro mobility, scooters, electric bicycles, regular bicycles, are printing solutions. So you know, every once in a while, you get to print a page for something. And our shop, which is something we offer alongside all our buildings, which is a pillar of consumable goods, like ice cream, toilet paper, granola bars, almond milk, different products you can grab on the go.

Catherine Weetman  08:20

Okay, so unpack that a little bit in terms of how it, what does it physically look like? If I’m, you know, renting a flat in a building? How do I find out what’s there? How do I go and get it? What do I do with it afterwards?

Yael Shemer  08:35

So the first time you would hear about us would be before we even launch, you would get a survey sharing, and we actually encourage our partners, landlords to tell the residents we’re bringing in this new service to the building, please participate. Let us know what you think. What would you like to say there? Then we will usually have a lunch party where we instal the unit and bring in the residents to discover it. And then we show them the product, we teach them how to use it, we actually find found out that a lot of them more complicated products, people said, This looks awesome, but how do I even use it. So in our in person events, we would kind of bring the items out, teach people how to use it. These are products like a robot mop upholstery cleaner, so there’s a discovery events. And then you’ve download our app. The app shows every single category that I shared, so clean cook, host play ride, DIY shop. And within those categories, you get the product and you can see information about the product and you can start renting it. And usually people pay anywhere between $1 to $2 for 30 minutes, or the on demand items. We also have longer rented items like an air mattress suitcase, sometimes a folding table, which does not make sense to rent for 30 minutes, and then we would do a day pass

Catherine Weetman  09:59

So, I’m guessing the longer rental items, the less used items, they don’t necessarily need to be on site or is everything in the building.

Yael Shemer  10:10

So the majority of our units, what you have in your building is what you can rent. But in big cities like New York and London, we also offer deliveries. So we can call it the breaking the glass ceiling of the total unit, where beyond the items you have in your buildings, you could also rent a suitcase for your travel, you can also rent a folding table for your guests, because eventually, we want to be the leading company that powers this new usage economy, where people can move between cities and then get everything they need via Tulu. And it really can go so many places. So we wanted to start with the 10 or 15 most used items for a building, and think of a building as a consuming, consuming units, and then tap into more categories of lifestyle.

Catherine Weetman  11:03

That makes sense. And when you were starting to talk about what to offer, you said it was important that it was elegant. And what does that mean? Does that mean the sort of the physical place where you go to get things or the airport or both.

Yael Shemer  11:23

What it meant for us was we had moved to New York, you know, to entrepreneurs that are talking to massive landlords with that have been in the city for maybe 100 years, some of them and ask them to put our product in the lobby or in the amenity space, where usually they look extremely luxurious. So in order for us to get that permission to try Tulu, and to trust us. We also wanted to bring a product that is appealing to this demographic to Gen Z’s and millennials that are leaving a busy life that are seeing this strange thing, Oh, why would I ever rent a vacuum cleaner if I can buy one and make it appealing make it elegant make it seem like it’s something that is aligned with what you want to do and kind of sell a dream and a vision, which we also tried it in, I would call it the rough and dirty version and people still use it. But I guess when we moved to New York, we really wanted to make sure that our product is aligned with our partners design and will nudge people to change their behaviour.

Catherine Weetman  12:33

Sure. And that kind of attracts attention for more than just the utility reasons. And looking at the you know that you’re already in 22 cities, then it feels as if your commercial landlords are going to be really enthusiastic about this. So from their perspective, what kind of value does it create for them?

Yael Shemer  13:00

We connect three major dots. One of the first thing we noticed was landlords started offering more and more amenities to attract great tenants to their buildings, and mainly during COVID realise that building is not just a home, it’s just not just for walls for people to live in. But as the city shuts down, what can the building offers to its residents.

Yael Shemer  13:27

And from talking to our partners, it really seems like they’re just looking for a great living experience. And when talking to our consumers, which is residents who live in buildings, they’re looking for convenience, while brands are looking for exposure and for rewriting a relationship they have with people who buy their products or relationship after they buy their products, eyeballs on their products, but the tension between residents who live in a building versus the building itself. People look for convenience, they look for experience and they look for affordability. And these are the three main things we found out. And buildings is where it all happens. And I think landlords are understanding that there’s so much innovation that can have happen there. Beyond just offering the gym, a lounge, a workplace. People need to live their life before in an affordable way. And that’s where Tulu comes in. So I would say mainly an experience. We don’t call it a revenue generator, although people landlords ended up actually making money off of it. And they get a stake of the usage revenue.

Catherine Weetman  14:37

Yeah. So So mainly for them, it’s to be able to offer something, a richer experience for the people who are going to be renting properties in their buildings. So yeah, it’s interesting, isn’t it, though that that dynamics changed and now the landlords are having to offer more than just you know, here’s this many square feet of space. And you know, the two bedrooms that you need?

Catherine Weetman  15:05

And what about the residential customers? I mean, obviously, they’re getting the benefits of access to kit that they don’t need to buy and things that they, you know, like, it’s the kind of steam cleaning or whatever, it’s like a distress purchase, isn’t it? Yeah, you haven’t decided, probably ahead of time that you might need this. It’s just now you’ve got a, you know, a stain on the carpet and the thinking, What do I do? So I can I can see those benefits. But are there other benefits like, you know, connecting them with other residents, or, you know, what else do people get out of it?

Yael Shemer  15:43

So I would start with a few stats that 80% of Gen Z believe that addressing climate change is critical for our future, and they would like to see more brands doing so. And even now, this year, they would like to see proofs of our brands are doing it and not just saying that they’re doing it. And from the World Economic Forum, we can see that 50% of consumers would actually prefer to rent items rather than to own them if they had the chance. So we believe that building an infrastructure is crucial for behaviour change. And Tulu as an infrastructure beyond giving you the access to renting a product like a vacuum cleaner, a steamer, rice cooker and air fryer the products you need. They create an infrastructure for you to change behaviour in your building. And I think that aligns with people vision of how they would like to live their lives. It’s a practicality for many people, we see that, you know, beyond at being more eco friendly. People see it as a very practical thing. They move apartments every year or every two years. And mainly in student housing. It’s just, it’s the obvious thing. And we see people that have been using our service for three years. And they say, Oh, of course, my building offers me these products, why would I have to buy them? So just to answer your question, I think the mindset of the consumer is already there, then we meet them with the right infrastructure. And when these two are aligned, we’re actually offering them either more connection to the building, perhaps people stay longer in the buildings that we have to live in. And this is already data we’re starting to collect.

Yael Shemer  17:31

In our parties, people say, oh my god, it’s the first time I’ve met a neighbour, I’ve talked to our neighbour. And, you know, going to the origins of this concept of sharing products, we are not the first ones to do it. And we don’t want to be the only one that are doing it. We know that people used to go knocking on their neighbor’s door asking for a cup of sugar asking to borrow things, I asked my neighbours to borrow things. But we truly believe that there has to be a scalable way to create an infrastructure that happens in buildings that hopefully will manifest into legislation as well into the way the city is being built. I want to see mayors offering local rent, rentable centres, rented centres where people can rent things out. But in a residential building, that’s we’re really the first ones to do this concept. And I think people get a take a pride in it when they see Tulu in their building.

Catherine Weetman  18:29

Mmm. Yeah, I’m really fascinated by the, you know, the deep seated needs of Gen Z kids in particular, to feel that they are doing something meaningful to help take climate action. So that’s a really encouraging trend, isn’t it? And I think when you talked about the length of time that people typically stay, it’s easy to envisage a scenario where people would be choosing their next rental on the basis of you know, does it have to loo or something similar? Because if it doesn’t, I now have now got this sort of loss feeling that I now don’t have access to renting this and the other and I do I really want to buy these and find somewhere to store them. So I think it won’t take long will it for people to just get used to the convenience of having access to these things, and then just kind of think, well, of course, I’m going to demand that for that for the next place that I rent. And what about the brands that you know, provide the equipment? How are they interacting with this new concept?

Yael Shemer  19:36

Right, yeah. So just to touch on your last point about residents kind of expecting it we are frankly not doing a lot of marketing, almost zero marketing. And when people when people move from one building where they had to move to the next building that doesn’t have to they would usually loop us in an email thread and saying, Hey, I used to have this service in my previous building. Can we bring it to this new building and so, as entrepreneurs who have big dreams, we believe this has to be a standard. And to create a standard, it has to be convenient. And we have to evolve involve all different stakeholders.

Yael Shemer  20:12

And that’s where brands come in. From day one, we knew brands were going to get involved. But the adoption and the curiosity and the interest, the business interest, but also the innovation, interest, is still really humbling to us. You know, we’ve been partnering with brands like Bosch, that have also invested in us brands like Kaercher, which is a really big German manufacturer. And they’ve shared with us that they do believe that this is a vertical that every big retailer has to start thinking about. It’s a vertical, not just in the sense of a business opportunity, but also in the sense that it does not necessarily compete with the buying mindset, it’s it’s just another channel, but mainly for Gen z’s, who say that they do not want to pay an upfront fee on a vacuum, they do not feel the need to do so. And in the usage economy, maybe they don’t call it the usage economy, it’s not strange to them. Our generation grew up with Uber and Airbnb and getting access to clothes and to a lot of different things. So I think brands are adopting this. And luckily, tool is there to help them do that. So we are excited about a few things with brand partnerships, we’re excited about helping brands rewrite our relationship that, quite frankly, doesn’t really exist at the moment, which is the post purchase relationship of, you know, we manufacture in airfryer. And then it goes to the consumers home. And that’s it. And you know, many devices do end up having IoT, and I’m sure it’s, it’s only going to get deeper and richer. But there’s still a lot of lacking data about the entire world of post purchase. So we work with our partners, and we actually, it’s fascinating, we have a partner here in the US that we had to ship them a few products that were used 200 times, they were like, send us the product, we want to take pictures of them, we want to see the wear and tear, and we’ve never seen it. Because usually brands don’t deal with that aspect of their business. So as the data, the consumer insights, what goes wrong, what happens when you start changing manufacturing from a product that was supposed to be used twice a week to being used 100 times a week? What products would the usage economy need? How strong what the consumer what what matters to consumers? And, you know, thinking about cleaning appliances? How do you create a product, that gives you an incredible experience every time you use it, when it’s a different person every time because if it’s your own vacuum, or it’s your own steamer or it’s your own scooter, it’s not working, sometimes that’s fine. But when it’s a business, that really, it’s core is repeated use of the same item, we need to rethink the design of it.

Catherine Weetman  23:11

Yeah, I can see that feeding into all sorts of different areas. I was just when when you were talking about vacuum cleaners, they’re you know, the different standards that we all we all have, you know, sometimes which can bring us into conflict with other family members about you know, you didn’t empty the vacuum cleaner bag before you put it away, or you didn’t coil the cable up properly, or whatever it is.

Catherine Weetman  23:36

So the way of making that, you know, so easy for people to get it right. And I’m guessing a lot of manufacturers don’t even really think about that. You know, there are there are products that you sometimes get, and you’re thinking, well – Why on earth would they design it like this – that makes this bit so, so difficult.

Catherine Weetman  24:01

So I think there’s there’s lots of insights there. And of course, if you want something to be used enthusiastically by lots of people, then it’s got to be super intuitive for them to use. You know, people don’t want to have to read an instruction manual before they get going with something do it needs, it needs to just be obvious how it’s going to work. And be super easy for you to use it in a way that you know, makes it good for the next person to use not for them to have to undo something that you couldn’t work out how to do. So think there’s there’s all sorts of really interesting benefits for the brands that get on board with this, that as you say, inform both shared use products that are designed for shared use or suitable for shared use and products that are designed for people to look after and care for and you know, maybe pass on. So I think I can really see how that would work. And as you say that the potential for ongoing interaction with the customer is also something that’s, that’s largely missing. I mean, how many people when you when you bought something bother to fill in the registration card, and you know, and give any feedback.

Catherine Weetman  25:19

So I think that’s got the potential to make such a difference to the circular economy for all sorts of products. And what about future plans, you know, you’ve already expanded to 22 cities, what’s what’s coming next year?

Yael Shemer  25:35

That is coming up next, I think building a startup in this environment, we’re really looking at, you know, initiatives that would make this vision come to life faster, in the best possible business way. And we are also adding, as I kind of touched upon Shopping Mall as our next adventure. And we are proud to say we are going to be partnering with IKEA this summer in a really exciting project. first of its kind in Sweden called Circuit, it’s going to be in north of Sweden, it’s going to be a shopping mall, where at the entrance, we’re going to be building a huge Tulu machine, where people who come by the mall can either rent stuff for the weekend plan or for nighttime or for the daily use. But also brands from the mall can feature their products, get feedback on their products, and have an option to let people try them before they want to buy them or potentially just try them as an experience. And, you know, thinking about a pioneering brand, like Ikea choosing to to fuel this new channel is extremely exciting. I think it’s just the beginning. And we believe that this has to become a standard, and it really needs to meet the consumer where they work, play leave shop. So we are open to trying every possible avenue to see what is the most convenient use of people, I think that our go-to market in residential buildings is extremely exciting.

Yael Shemer  27:13

Like the correlation of, it doesn’t matter, it actually matters a lot. Not only where you rent the item, but where you use the item. And if you rent it somewhere, but use it somewhere else, there is an impact to it. So I think tapping into the residential market and student housing is one avenue. And we’re now exploring all these other avenues to see what can be done there to make it as convenient as possible for people to have more experiences with tool.

Catherine Weetman  27:45

That sounds so exciting. And yeah, it’d be really interesting to see where that’s going. If there’s a link that we can share, whether that’s the news or you know, a link to the model itself, then that would be brilliant. So, over the course of developing Tulu, what kind of things have you struggled with, and what surprised you along the way?

Yael Shemer  28:10

So I must, I must say that I have been extremely fortunate to have a really genius co founder, that has been helping me in leader leading our company, as the CEO, gracefully and relentlessly. It’s, I think, the most challenging as a person that built a startup at a young age was always holding these two kind of counterintuitive streams of energy with one is always being in tune with the mission and vision and painting a story of what this could become. versus having to deal with the short term, nitty gritty details of the business of the administrative work on getting it to start customer service, like really the things that will actually make it work in the long term, thinking about them in the short term. And four years into the making, I think this is the only way to go. You know, you can’t just be in the vision all the time, you have to be willing to put your head down and work and do the work and build a business that is always thoughtful of what could go wrong, how to fix things, what is our blind spots, how to be in tune with our customers and really listen to what they have to say, mainly in a field that you’re it’s such an intimate field, you know, people take our product into their home, they have a bad experience, they have a bad experience. So it’s been really fascinating to always hold that vision and hold the perfect world in how this is going to become a worldwide phenomenon. versus you know, the day to day in the office and I think that’s been a challenge but also the biggest reward.

Catherine Weetman  29:57

Hmm, yeah, that’s fascinating. And I’m imagining then it’s even more complicated because you’ve kind of got three types of customer, haven’t you – you’ve got the residential, end user customer, you’ve got the commercial building operator who you’ve got to convince to put the thing in there. And then you’ve got all the brands, you know, and that you’re now trying to work with to help them improve their products. So they’re more shareable and short, suitable for short term use. So Yael, when you talking to other would be entrepreneurs or businesses that want to go more circular? What’s the lesson learned or top tip that you share with them?

Yael Shemer  30:39

We kind of touched upon it when we started talking. I think that circularity as a framework in existing industries, is a very incredible thing to say, Okay, what’s broken in those systems, let’s make them circular. But when you’re trying to innovate, and you’re not even sure this is the right solution, what was helpful for us, you know, our intention was to create a business that makes a positive impact. And our intention was to build a business that will grow big and actually change behaviour. And we started with a building, we started saying, what does what do all buildings in a city have in common? What are the opportunities mapped out the user experience that potential, and then started designing the circular concept around that, rather than starting with a circular concept and finding a product to it. So I would always say, if you want to innovate, and if you want to innovate thing, solutions, that eventually would end up being circular, start with the field in the industry, map it out, see all the opportunities, because if we were not doing that, I think we would never come to the merge between landlords real estate, and consumerism, which are two crucial industries that have haven’t really gone together in the past. And I think it’s because we let our interests and our both both of our worlds go together, but also mapped out the process, we said, oh, there’s a really interesting opportunity to add a micro retail aspect, renting aspect into real estate concept. And, and I think that enabled us to design the solution.

Catherine Weetman  32:23

So just to make sure I understand what you’re saying, you’re talking about, looking at the whole kind of process that people go through, in their daily lives in the built environment. And then thinking about all the different – I don’t like using the word ecosystem, but the different kinds of systems that sit around that and either constrain them to do something in one way, or are missing, and kind of looking at how you could improve, you know, offer offer something that unlocks some of their unmet needs.

Yael Shemer  33:02

Yeah,

Catherine Weetman  33:03

Yeah. But kind of understanding the entire system to see where the intervention points might be, and, and what’s possible. Exactly. And then also being mindful that you might not have the full system glued up together from day one, maybe it’s a 10 year process, maybe it’s a three year process. But when you understand the long term play of how the ecosystem will evolve, and the evolution of behaviour, and saying, oh, you know, in the really desired futures, people would live in a building. And they have this like smart elevators, and they can share products all day long. And they can do all those things that are more aligned with the sustainable vision. But there are steps that has to be taken. And it starts with designing the bigger system and then taking short term steps. Yeah, that’s a really like that. It’s a bit mind blowing. But I think I can kind of get a sense of how you’ve done that. So thanks for sharing that. And is there someone that you’d recommend as a future guest for the programme or a really nice example of a circular economy that you want to share?

Yael Shemer  34:10

I recently come across a company called The Rounds. I think what they’re doing is incredible with food delivery, in Philadelphia and other big cities. And yeah, I think I think that was inspiring to me, seeing companies and entrepreneurs choosing this field. This is choosing these fields, because there’s so much opportunity, and I I bet on entrepreneurs and VCs to make that difference rather than on governments and consumers because we need people that think fast and execute fast and are willing to take risks, while also taking a huge chance and opportunity. So any entrepreneur who’s working on a concept and has the willpower and the strength to execute something I think is worth talking to.

Catherine Weetman  35:04

Yeah, that sounds interesting, I’m going to look them up. And I agree, I think it’s, I’m seeing much more happening with disruptive startups than I am with existing businesses. And even, you know, the, the bigger businesses that we’ve mentioned a few today in terms of the your suppliers, and so on. Unless they’re, they’ve got a kind of secret, secret office with a whole load of circular stuff that they’re about to launch on the world. It just feels as if they’re really taking baby steps. And we know that we need this to happen much more quickly. And that people are really open to it. So it’s frustrating that brands are taking so long, and nobody really wants to be first mover. So hopefully, that will change. As more and more people get switched on to this, hopefully, it’s going to become a flood. And Yael if you could wave a magic wand and change one thing, so that we create a better world, what would that be?

Yael Shemer  36:01

There’s a lot of things I would change, but I don’t. I hope that the majority of what we manufacture in the future will be biodegradable. And the concept of landfills would be rethought off. And just, you know, I want to see companies that externalising their costs of what happens to their products when they die. So if I could use my magic wand, I would make the first steps of production be also tied to the last steps of production and make close more circles on that I don’t get why it’s still a thing. And like you said, we have to take bigger steps. And that’s my wish for more companies to take accountability into what happens at the end of life, their products. Yes, be properly responsible for everything that they’re putting into the market. Yeah, exactly. That’s, that’s nice. That’s a really impactful suggestion, I think. Thank you. And before we ask how people can get in touch and find out more, is there anything else you’d like to share?

Yael Shemer  37:07

Yeah, I think that intrapreneurship is a wide range. As you know, there’s so many things you can do, you can start a company, but you could also take individual steps in your own in your own life. And I think it’s important, I think it’s meaningful for people to talk about it. I think it’s meaningful for people to try things in their own homes, to maybe ask their management for products like Tulu but I, I really want to stretch that it’s the starting company is that not the only way to impact, you can do so many other things. There’s so much space for everyone to participate in circular economy. And I want to say more fellows, and more people from my generation taking steps and rethinking their daily practices, and the companies they work with. So I believe that all of us to join forces and do that. So that would be my, my wish as well.

Catherine Weetman  38:03

Yeah, thank you. And I think it speaks to the desires of particularly the younger generations to feel that they are making a difference and helping support action, on climate, on biodiversity, on rebuilding communities, and so on. And I think that’s missing from the kind of, you know, how do we solve the problem lists for lots of lots of companies, they’re just not thinking about the deeper needs of people, they’re thinking about the superficial, or how that how they can create the perception of a need, you know, the new new garment that that an influencer has just worn or whatever it is. But really, those aren’t satisfying our deeper needs for connection for feeling like we’re, you know, we were adding value to the world. And I think that’s, that’s an area that lots of lots more entrepreneurs and established businesses could be thinking more about. So Yael, how can people find out more and get in touch with you and find out about to lose?

Yael Shemer  39:08

We would love to get connected on Instagram or LinkedIn, you can follow our page of Tulu and see our new cities we’re actually going to be launching to Madrid next month. So we always announce new partnerships in cities. And if you want to collaborate as a content creator, there’s so many opportunities to work with us. We’re really believing in building these together with our generation and with people who are interested in SEO and circular economy as a topic. So I would say mainly Instagram and LinkedIn is where you can find us, same with me just look up my handle and say hello, I’m super open to feedback. I love connecting on this topic.

Catherine Weetman  39:45

Brilliant. Thank you. And we’ll put all the links in the show notes and for people listening just to clarify that Tulu is T – u – l – u. So, is easy to spell t u l u and And yeah, I think it’s just so exciting and looking forward to see what happens next. So, yay. Thanks so much for sharing that story so far with us. And best of luck with the IKEA launch and all the other good stuff that’s coming soon.

Yael Shemer  40:15

Thank you so much, Catherine. It was a pleasure.